Meeting documents

Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 22nd September, 2015 7.30 pm

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 Date: Wednesday, 8th July, 2015 Time: 7.30pm Place: Council Chamber, Council Offices, Gernon Road, Letchworth Garden City
 PRESENT: Councillor Cathryn Henry (Chairman), Councillor Steve Hemingway (Vice-Chairman), Councillor Bill Davidson, Councillor Jean Green, Councillor Sal Jarvis, Councillor David Leal - Bennett, Councillor Sandra Lunn, Councillor Paul Marment, Councillor Gerald Morris, Councillor M.R.M. Muir, Councillor Frank Radcliffe, Councillor Mike Rice and Councillor Deborah Segalini.

N.B. Councillor Bill Davidson left at 9.00 p.m.
 IN ATTENDANCE: Councillor Mrs L.A. Needham (Leader of the Council), John Robinson (Strategic Director of Customer Services), Vaughan Watson (Head of Leisure and Environmental Services), Anthony Roche (Acting Monitoring Officer), Steve Crowley (Contracts and Projects Manager), Brendan Sullivan (Scrutiny Officer) and Hilary Dineen (Committee and Member Services Officer).
 ALSO PRESENT: Councillors Peter Burt, Julian Cunningham, John Harris, Simon Harwood, Bernard Lovewell, Ray Shakespeare-Smith and Mrs C.P.A. Strong.
 Meeting attachment Agenda Front Pages
Item Description/Resolution Status Action
PART I
20 APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE

Apologies for absence were received from Councillors Clare Billing and Janine Paterson.
 Noted   
21 NOTIFICATION OF OTHER BUSINESS

No other business was submitted for consideration by the Committee.
 Noted   
22 CHAIRMAN'S ANNOUNCEMENTS

(1) The Chairman welcomed attendants to the meeting.

(2) The Chairman informed everyone that the meeting was being recorded and that, if they participated in the meeting, their contribution would be included in the recording;

(3) The Chairman informed Members that Councillor Jane Gray (Portfolio Holder for Leisure) had given her apologies as she was recovering from an operation The Chairman asked that the Overview and Scrutiny Committee's best wishes for a speedy recovery be sent to Councillor Gray;

(4) The Chairman welcomed Councillor Lynda Needham (Leader of the Council) to the meeting and advised that she would be representing Councillor Gray;

(5) The Chairman informed Members that the meeting was to consider a Call - In and that the order of business would be as detailed at Paragraph 6.4.5 of the Constitution being:

- The Members who signed the Notice of Call-In would be invited to address the Committee on the reasons for Call - In;

- Members of the Committee would be invited to ask questions of those who signed the Call - In;

- The Portfolio Holder, in this case Councillor Needham, and relevant Officers would be invited to address the Committee on the decision taken and the grounds for Call - In:

- Members of the Committee would be invited to ask questions of Councillor Needham and Officers;

- The Committee would debate the Call - In and make any recommendations or referrals;

(6) Members were reminded that any declarations of interest in respect of any business set out in the agenda, should be declared as either a Disclosable Pecuniary Interest or Declarable Interest and are required to notify the Chairman of the nature of any interest declared at the commencement of the relevant item on the agenda. Members declaring a Disclosable Pecuniary Interest must withdraw from the meeting for the duration of the item. Members declaring a Declarable Interest which requires they leave the room under Paragraph 7.4 of the Code of Conduct, can speak on the item, but must leave the room before the debate and vote.

(7) Prior to the first substantive item on the agenda being discussed the Chairman proposed that, as some of the information to be relayed by the speakers could contain both Part I and Part II information and to help the Committee consider all aspects of the Call- In effectively, Item 6 should be heard before Item 4.

A Member noted that the reasons for the Call - In would likely be Part I information and therefore it would be difficult to discuss the Part II item without the benefit of this information. She asked whether the Committee could hear this information in Part I prior to going into Part II, then return to Part I.

The Acting Monitoring Officer clarified that the Committee could start the meeting in Part I, go to Part II and return to Part I. However some of the reasons for the Call - In could contain Part II information and he therefore suggested that all of the reasons for the Call - In should be discussed in Part II and that any element of the reasons for Call - In that were Part I could be restated at the beginning of the Part I item.

The Committee agreed to the proposal.
 Noted   
23 CALL-IN OF DECISIONS MADE BY CABINET ON 16 JUNE 2015 - LETCHWORTH LEISURE MANAGEMENT CONTRACT AND DEVELOPMENT OF NORTH HERTS LEISURE CENTRE (NHLC)
Item 4 - Cover report
Item 4A - Notice of call-in
Item 4B - Options open to the Committee
Item 4C - Cabinet Decisions - 16 June 2015
Item 4D - Cabinet Part 1 report - 16 June 2015
Item 4D - Appendix 1.1 to Cabinet report - 16 June 2015
Item 4D - Appendix 1.2 to Cabinet report - 16 June 2015
Item 4E - Information Note - 16 June 2015

NB: This Item was considered after Item 6 (Minute 25 refers)

The reasons for Call - In of the report were confirmed as those set out on Pages 3 and 4 of the agenda.

Councillor Leal-Bennett stated that the proposed Capital Expenditure was not the reason for the Call - In, rather it was the level financial information provided regarding the extension of the contract.

The Chairman drew attention to Item 4B, which detailed the options open to the Committee having considered the Call - In.

Members considered whether Cabinet had been given sufficient information, or not, to make the decision. Although some Members expressed some concern about the level of information provided to Cabinet, the majority believed that Officer's advice must be trusted both in giving information and that they would not withhold information.

Having fully debated the reasons for the Call - In and the details contained in the report and given verbally at the meeting, the Chairman reminded Members that the question was whether Cabinet had received sufficient information to make a decision.

It was proposed and seconded that a vote be taken on whether the decision would be referred back to Cabinet or not. Upon the vote it was agreed that the decision should not be referred back to Cabinet.

The Monitoring Officer advised that, if there were any lessons to be learnt about how information is presented in future, the Task and Finish Group on Commercialisation could be asked to consider this.

The Chairman suggested that those who had made a presentation this evening could make a presentation to the Task and Finish Group.

RESOLVED: That the decisions made by Cabinet on 16 June 2015 regarding the Letchworth Management Contract and Development of North Herts Leisure Centre (NHLC) not be referred back to Cabinet.

REASON FOR DECISION: To enable the Overview and Scrutiny Committee to consider the Call - In of decisions made by Cabinet on 16 June 2015 regarding the Letchworth Management Contract and Development of North Herts Leisure Centre (NHLC).
 Agreed   
24 EXCLUSION OF PRESS AND PUBLIC

NB: This Item was considered prior to Item 4 (Minute 23 refers).

RESOLVED: That under Section 100A(4) of the Local Government Act 1972, the public and press be excluded from the meeting for the following items of business on the grounds that they involve the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined in Paragraph 3 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A of the said Act.
 Agreed   
PART II
25 LETCHWORTH LEISURE MANAGEMENT CONTRACT AND DEVELOPMENT OF NORTH HERTS LEISURE CENTRE (NHLC)
Data/Overview and Scrutiny Committee/201509221930/Agenda/Report
Data/Overview and Scrutiny Committee/201509221930/Agenda/Appendix 1 - SLL Tender variation submission

In response to a query regarding the recording of this meeting, the Monitoring Officer advised that the Council would, upon request, record meetings and anyone present could also record meetings. This was a positive move towards more transparency, however it not appropriate to record Part II items. Cabinet would shortly receive a protocol on the recording of Council meetings.

The Chairman asked whether, in respect of Call - Ins, only one person would be expected to present.

The Monitoring Officer confirmed that it was expected to receive one presentation, but this was at the Chairman's discretion.

The Chairman advised that, on her discretion, all presenters would be heard, but she requested that they avoid repeating information.

Councillor David Leal-Bennett thanked the Chairman for the opportunity to address the Committee and the Officers for providing the information requested. He explained that 6 Councillors had Called - In the decision as they were concerned that Cabinet did not have all of the information needed to make the decision. The aim was not to hold up construction, but to have a financial health check.

Councillor John Harris advised that more historic figures should have been sought and better forward planning and profit projections requested in order to adopt a more business like approach.

Councillor Harwood expressed concern regarding capital expenditure and the operational contract.

Councillor Strong read out a statement from Councillor McNally which commented on the analysis of the financial information provided.

Councillor Needham stated that NHDC should be proud of their leisure facilities, which received approximately 1.3 million visitors. The proposed plans would improve facilities and increase visitors and therefore the investment was more than justified.

The Strategic Director of Customer Services assured Members that the information provided to Cabinet in order to make the decision was proportionate and relevant. There had been opportunities for Members to ask questions and any Member of the Council could ask for additional information at any time, not just for formal meetings or Call - Ins.

The Chairman asked whether Cabinet Members were expected to analyse information in great detail.

The Monitoring Officer referred to a High Court Case regarding Durham Council at which the Judge observed "The Cabinet did not need to be appraised of everything which was in the knowledge of the officers. The officers are there to digest material and to bring to bear their expertise, which the Cabinet Members will not have. The Cabinet can rely on the officer's fair summary of relevant matters and their balanced evaluation of the implications. If officers have given proper consideration to different arguments and then come to a conclusion there is no necessary error should the report not refer to the different contentions but only to the conclusion reached."

RESOLVED: That the report entitled Letchworth Leisure Management Contract and Development of North Herts Leisure Centre (NHLC) be noted.

REASON FOR DECISION: To enable the Overview and Scrutiny Committee to consider the Call-In of decisions made by Cabinet on 16 June 2015 regarding the Letchworth Management Contract and Development of North Herts Leisure Centre (NHLC).
 Agreed   
Published on Wednesday, 2nd September, 2015
9.16p.m