Agenda item

RESOLVED: That application 22/00170/FP be GRANTED planning permission subject to the reasons set out in the report of the Development and Conservation Manager.

Audio recording – 66 minutes 04 seconds

 

Councillor David Levett noted for the Committee that the Overview and Scrutiny Committee had made a call to account to explore how the Urgent Decision was taken. This call to account would take place at the Extraordinary Overview and Scrutiny meeting on Wednesday 28 September. While this would not take into account the planning decisions, in the interest of transparency, he would recuse himself from the Committee and sit in the public gallery.

 

The Development and Conservation Manager advised that there was one correction to the report, in which paragraph 4.1.1 referred to 24 bedrooms, this should be 21 bedrooms.

 

The Conservation and Development Manager presented the report in respect of application 22/00170/FP supported by a visual presentation consisting of photographs and plans.

 

In response to a question from Councillor Daniel Allen, the Development and Conservation Manager confirmed that secondary glazing had not yet been installed as it would require Listed Building Consent, as requested in Item 7 tonight.

 

The Chair invited Mr Scot Moir and Ms Emily Best-English to speak against the application.

 

Mr Moir thanked the Chair for the opportunity to address the Committee and advised the Committee of the following:

 

·         He was a neighbouring resident to the Lord Lister hotel, joined by Ms Best-English who was the landlady at the Half Moon pub.

·         At the previous meeting it was confirmed that this was accommodation with support and this was a relevant planning consideration, but the 24/7 support was only temporary.

·         Keystage have plans to install kitchenettes in rooms which would turn them into self-sustained flats.

·         There was a lack of amenity space in the building, with one shared kitchen between all residents and no specific place to eat.

·         The proposals should be safe, accessible and inclusive, but there is no separate female accommodation, no wheelchair access throughout the site and the bathrooms were not accessible. This means these proposals fail to provide accommodation suitable for all.

·         The Secure by Design measures means the waste bins would be 30m from the boundary of the property, contrary to North Herts Council policy, and collection of these would cause obstructions on the public highways.

·         There is no access for emergency vehicles, who have frequent attendance on site.

·         The Highways consultee had acknowledged that the sites vehicle access was narrow, with no details of how access via the gate would work.

 

Ms Best-English thanked the Chair for the opportunity to address the Committee and advised the Committee of the following:

 

·         She had owned the pub for 5 years and the change of use of Lord Lister has had a negative impact on the business and the lives of local residents.

·         Regular pub users were no longer attending, musicians no longer wanted to perform following abuse and there was a loss of revenue from hotel residents.

·         Bradshaw and Johnson Accountants had prepared a financial statement comparing revenue from 3 months when the Lord Lister operated as a hotel, compared to 3 months when it was in its current use. This statement noted that over £32k revenue had been lost at the pub over these two periods.

 

In response to a point of clarification from Councillor Daniel Allen, Ms Best-English advised that emergency vehicles had no clear access to the Lord Lister hotel, which frequently meant they were required to park in front of the Half Moon pub. The installation of the gate will further exacerbate the situation.

 

The Chair thanked Mr Moir and Ms Best-English for their contribution.

 

The Chair invited Councillor Keith Hoskins, Councillor Claire Strong and Councillor Sam Collins to speak against the application as Member Advocates.

 

Councillor Hoskins thanked the Chair for the opportunity to speak and advised the Committee of the following:

 

·         Nothing further had been added to this application to change views when previously brought to the Committee.

·         The range of objections show that these are not speculative, but born of experience over the last 10 months.

·         Police figures have demonstrated that anti-social behaviour incidents related to the Lord Lister had increased.

·         The requirement to address homelessness should not be a reason to approve a scheme in the wrong place.

 

Councillor Strong thanked the Chair for the opportunity to speak and advised the Committee of the following:

 

·         This was called in following the public interest in this item.

·         According to the Development and Conservation Manager, the management of the site and the residents are not planning matters, with a view that the use of hotels and hostels are broadly similar. But this fails to address concerns that the Lord Lister is the right location for this facility.

·         In planning training, Members are advised to examine what needs protecting and what mitigations can be put in place.

·         The anti-social behaviour reports have increased, 25 this February compared to 0 last February.

·         The example provided in the report is not relevant to the Lord Lister application.

·         Contrary to point D3 of the Local Plan.

·         Insufficient consultation has been done with the local community.

 

Councillor Collins thanked the Chair for the opportunity to speak and advised the Committee of the following:

 

·         Evidence demonstrated that anti-social behaviour had increased in the area and this is a reason for rejecting the application, due to fear of crime.

·         The appeal and planning example provided is not relevant to this application.

·         Further details had been circulated to Members ahead of the meeting.

·         Requested that EV charging points be installed in the car park.

 

The Chair confirmed that the pack sent to Members referred to by Cllr Collins was sent very late and may have been missed by Members.

 

The following Members asked points of clarification:

 

·         Councillor Daniel Allen

·         Councillor Nigel Mason

·         Councillor Morgan Derbyshire

·         Councillor Tony Hunter

 

The points of clarification raised were regarding the anti-social behaviour figures provided for the report by the Police. It was clarified by the Chair that the figures quoted in the report would have to be taken as fact, as these had been provided directly from the Police consultee. The Chair read an email from the Police consultee who confirmed the date ranges of the figures provided.

 

The Chair thanked Councillors Hoskins, Strong and Collins for their contribution.

 

The Chair invited Ms Toni Nye and Mr James O’Grady to speak in support of the application.

 

Ms Nye thanked the Chair for the opportunity to speak and advised the Committee of the following:

 

·         As detailed in 2021 North Herts supported 150 people experiencing homelessness into hotels, with 25 of these supported by Keystage.

·         Placements so far have been in hotels which are usually isolated or lacking in support for residents.

·         This location is suitable due to its town centre location, with good access to services and transport.

·         Placing people into hotels outside of the area for long periods of time will lead to further isolation and is inappropriate.

·         The lounge is a multi-use space for various activities, including learning and development programmes, as well as socialising.

·         The site offers a holistic space to provide access for key support workers. 

·         Staff are provided with comprehensive training, with ongoing development, to meet the needs of the residents.

·         There is 24/7 support on site, with further support from statutory bodies and authorities.

 

Mr O’Grady thanked the Chair for the opportunity to speak and advised the Committee of the following:

 

·         There had been no objections from any consultees on this application and the police were in support.

·         The Local Authority has verified 5 homeless people per month, with a need to continue to find support in suitable locations for these people.

·         3 homeless people had taken their own lives in the area since 2021, before they could be provided support, one of these since the meeting at which this application was deferred.

 

The following Members asked points of clarification:

 

·         Councillor Daniel Allen

·         Councillor Amy Allen

 

In response to points of clarification, the supporters advised:

 

·         There was a plan to install kitchenettes in the rooms, but the main communal kitchen space would remain. It was expected that the kitchenettes would be in support of the main kitchen area, not instead of it, and residents would retain access to this.

·         The intention is to continue to provide 24/7 support, but this is not a clinical or regulated service.

 

In response to points raised, the Development and Conservation Manager advised:

 

·         The police figures were clarified in the letter included in the appendix to the report, where it was confirmed it covered an 18 month period. He acknowledged that it should be 20% of incidents during this time were related to Lord Lister, not 14% as written.

·         Members have to assume that other statutory bodies will do their job effectively.

·         If Members put an emphasis on the anti-social behaviour figures, they would need to give equal emphasis to the memo detailing homelessness requirements in the district.

·         This is for temporary accommodation for people in need, so the accessibility and access requirements for housing or flats do not apply.

 

The following Members took part in the debate:

 

·         Councillor Daniel Allen

·         Councillor Tom Tyson

·         Councillor Tony Hunter

 

Points raised in the debate included:

 

·         This was an important service being provided to deal with a desperate situation regarding homelessness.

·         There did not appear to be sufficient planning reason to reject lifesaving opportunities for vulnerable people.

·         The service was vital to support vulnerable people, but there were reservations regarding how the site was identified.

 

Councillor Daniel Allen proposed and Councillor Tom Tyson seconded and, following a vote, it was:

 

RESOLVED: That application 22/00170/FP be GRANTED planning permission subject to the reasons set out in the report of the Development and Conservation Manager.